This is part two of my incredible conversation with Lauren Fair. In this episode we delve deep into the art of creating a secure space for decision-making, the power of effective negotiation and communication, and the extraordinary strength that women can harness during this challenging time. Lauren shares pearls of wisdom from her top tips for women going through this monumental transition in life.
We also put a spotlight on the critical need for self-love and self-compassion during a divorce. We uncover how tapping into your emotional safety can pave the way for empowering, deliberate decisions. We illustrate how personalized coaching can cultivate impactful, enduring changes, equipping you with the arsenal to tackle the intricate nuances of the divorce process.
So, gear up to build emotional resilience, access your inner fortitude, and stride confidently into your new life. Stay to the end to hear Lauren's two most powerful tips when it comes to empowering women going through divorce. Tune in and let's chart a path to a more independent, emotionally resilient life post-divorce.
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Grief and trauma are the two biggest struggles women deal with as they go through their divorce. It's highly likely that you are experiencing both and don't even realize what you're feeling. I'm here to tell you that it's okay for you to grieve your marriage (even if it was shitty) and it's normal to be experiencing some kind of trauma (which is essentially a disconnection from yourself - your mind, body and soul). I can help guide you through the grief in all of the forms it show up so you can heal. I can also teach you how to ground yourself in healing so you can ease through the trauma. Schedule your free consult by clicking here.
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Full Episode Transcript:
This is Becoming you Again and you are listening to episode number 132. I'm your host, Karin Nelson. Welcome to Becoming you Again, the podcast to help you with your mental and emotional well-being during and after divorce. This is where you learn to overcome the grief and trauma of your divorce. We're going to do that by reconnecting with yourself, creating lasting emotional resilience and living a truly independent life, so that your life can be even better than when you were married. I'm your host, karin Nelson. All right, my lovely ladies, welcome back to today's podcast. I'm so glad you're here for the continuation of my conversation with Lauren Fair. In today's episode, we are going to be talking more about ADR-based coaching and how that can benefit you as you go through your divorce. We also talk about the keys to successfully navigating the transition from being married to divorced and then being able to move forward from there with your life. Lauren and I also have a really great conversation about being able to create safety and space to help you get the best answer when it comes to deciding for yourself whether or not you should get divorced. Then, at the very end of this episode, you are going to hear Lauren's top two tips on empowering women who are moving through the divorce process. I'm so excited for you to listen to the second half of this great conversation, so let's dive in.
Lauren Fair: 1:26
With respect to the ADR-based coaching. Another thing that we really work on is skill building around negotiation and communication. That's something that is really important for clients who want to participate in a process where there's some kind of negotiation happening. That's present really in any process that you choose, but it's more prevalent when, say, for example, if you're choosing to go to mediation without attorneys, then that can be a great option for minimizing cost and for many reasons, but I find that clients are usually not prepared to act as their own attorney, if you will, in the mediation process. So that's one of the things I really enjoy doing with clients is helping equip them to be able to successfully engage in that mediation process, to include knowing how to negotiate on their own behalf and how to communicate, how to stay at the table when emotions run high. When he says that thing you know he's going to say this is totally going to piss you off. Maybe you don't want to, you don't want to end the mediation over it, but you're afraid of what you might do if he says that thing right. I think that's so useful.
Karin Nelson: 3:00
Everything that you're talking about here is these are skills that I think and I always talk from a woman's perspective because, number one, I am a woman, but also because of the clients that I work with and the people who listen to this podcast are it's like a 99 percent, you know, women based audience. But as women, we often are kind of socialized to not speak up, to not ask for what we want, to not stay at the table, to go hide in the corner and cry or become emotional and nothing wrong with emotions. I think feeling and processing through your emotions is a beautiful thing. But, like you say, you know if you're at the table and he says that triggering thing that you know he's going to say and it's going to maybe drive you over the top, if you have these skills in your pocket where you're able to stay, take a breath, get out the words that you want to fight for, ask for voice, what it is that you want in this negotiation process, that's only going to serve you as you go through this divorce, instead of like, as you say, that's it, we're done with this mediation, it's over, we're just giving it to the judge now. Maybe this is your opportunity to get to the place that you want and show up for yourself in the process, without needing to spend all of the funds that you had put aside for your divorce, or that you have found for your divorce, on throwing it at lawyers, and instead you have the confidence going into this mediation process and being able to show up for yourself because you now have these skills in your back pocket.
Lauren Fair: 4:39
Yeah, because really I think when that conflict happens it's an opportunity to do one of two things. You can either blow up the mediation which usually doesn't.
Karin Nelson: 4:50
It isn't going to lead to any good right.
Lauren Fair: 4:52
Yeah, or you can deescalate it, as difficult as that might be right, based on whatever it is that just happened, but it's the ability to pause and look at you know what do I want to do here in light of what my long term goals are, and you know a lot of the time staying at the table serves those ends, and so you know it's kind of having a protocol for when this gets really tough emotionally. What am I going to do and maybe when is that time that I'm going to pull the plug on it? You know there might be times when that's appropriate, but knowing in advance, like here's when I'm going to take the deescalation approach or here's when I'm going to say this isn't working, yeah that's so smart.
Karin Nelson: 5:36
It's like having the plan in. You know that you've laid out ahead of time, and it's kind of knowing that boundary line of like if this boundary is crossed, that's it, we're done. But can I deescalate? Can I keep myself in my prefrontal cortex and ground myself in some way? How can I show up to support myself in the really tough moments? But I know that if I can get through these tough moments we're going to hit the goal that I'm looking for, or at least get as close to it as possible.
Lauren Fair: 6:05
Right, yeah, exactly, I mean, my goal for clients is always that you know they're going to be more credible, more prepared, more organized. They're going to be able to emotionally regulate in the process when they need to, and be ready to make decisions that you know are in alignment with what their long term goals and what their best interests are. You know, I think the work that I do is primarily, you know, centered around that successful engagement in the divorce process and I think that I like coaching in that area because I have so much experience handling the process and knowing, kind of, all the places that we're going to need to make decisions, all the places where we're going to spot issues that you're going to be coming up, that we want to, you know, have a plan for. But I think, too, for you like, the grief aspect is so important to not only, like I said you know, be able to successfully kind of work, to engage in the process right to be even able to engage in that but also it's, I think, a longer term, you know, project that you work on, in the sense that you know it takes time to work through that grief and that's really something that is key to successfully navigating, like the life transition piece of the divorce process.
Karin Nelson: 7:28
And I think that's kind of the that's. That's part of the divorce that I think can be just as scary as the actual legal process. It's this, and you kind of spoke to it at the beginning, with this uncertainty, it's this idea of like, what is my life going to look like outside of this marriage? I know for me that was a big deal. I'd been married for 20 years almost, and so and I know I'm not the only woman out there but even if you have gone through a short marriage, you've had this idea of what your life is looking like in that moment and what it has looked like in the past. And going into this unknown and having to transition through that and feeling incapable or not confident in what that's going to look like, who you're going to be, how you're going to support yourself, how that's going to look for your kids that can be a very scary thing. And so I think, like having both of those something to help you through the transition and support you in the way that you need legally, but then also understanding yourself enough and trusting yourself enough to know I can handle this, I can figure this out, it's going to be okay outside of this divorce.
Lauren Fair: 8:37
Definitely, and I think that's really important foundational work too, because I have so many potential clients that I talked to who have been thinking about divorce for a long time and it is, you know, that kind of grief around. You know the fact that they, they know that the marriage is over in some way. Yeah, and they have been. It's oftentimes women it's not always, but oftentimes it is women who have been thinking about divorce for a long time before they actually take the steps to initiate the process, and so there is grieving that's happening, you know, before the process starts and it doesn't mean that it's just, you know, done at the point that they're starting the legal process. But I think sometimes so much of of those emotional challenges, plus the uncertainty that you were talking about about the future, really, you know, stops them from making the decision to move forward for a while, I think. You know I was talking recently with some, some colleagues about this I think the average is like when we can think about divorce for like at least six years sometimes before they actually move forward with it, and that's a really long time you know, it's a long time when you know life is short and you know that might be the right amount of time for somebody, because of course we're talking about ending, you know, a significant relationship in your life and causing a lot of changes and it warrants its due consideration. But I just hear from a lot of clients that really they knew what they wanted long before that and it was just the fears and, you know, the grief that you know presented challenges with moving forward.
Karin Nelson: 10:20
Yeah, and I think that's kind of where so much of my focus is is really helping women especially step in, but men can do this too step into that knowing and being willing to allow and open up to quicker, because I think the more you can understand from your intuition and what's best and right for you, the more like willing you are to kind of make those decisions, even with the fear, yeah, even with knowing it's going to be scary, there's going to be challenges, and I know this is the right decision for me. I know I'm going to be okay. I don't know what it's going to look like, but I'm going to like I know this is right for me.
Lauren Fair: 11:04
Yeah, yeah, and I think it is so important to feel like you have your own back in this process, like you have self-confidence around your ability to be okay in the future, and I think it's hard sometimes to access that because oftentimes the circumstances that led to the breakdown of the marriage, I think you know, have the impact on many clients that I talked to, on, you know, on their self-confidence and where they are with things on that front, and so it's hard to, I think, be your most confident on your own right when you're at that point.
Karin Nelson: 11:45
Yes, I can totally relate to exactly what you just said, because that was me In my marriage. I so felt like I didn't have confidence in who I was. I didn't have confidence in my own voice, in my own opinions, and I didn't trust myself necessarily to like make decisions that I felt were right for me. But I was able to step into moments of clarity and moments of peace and getting to that, you know, on my client or the people who listened to this podcast have heard me tell my story many, many times, so I'm sorry if you're hearing it again, but that moment when I was on a walk and I just asked myself, you know, what is it that I really want? And I just kind of let go of all outside opinions, about all outside people who maybe would be judging me, or the shame I might feel or the guilt I might feel over whatever decision I made, and I just knew in that moment what I wanted and what I needed was a divorce and there was so much peace that just kind of washed over me and I had to keep going back to that moment, back to that feeling, as I went forward with the process, as I told my ex or my husband at the time that I wanted to divorce, as we told the kids, as we told family members as we went forward with the process. I had to keep going back to that moment to kind of anchor into that trust of this is the right decision for me. I know it's right and I'm not going to let all these outside you know influences try and tell me that I've got it wrong, when I know for me it was right. And I think it's important for women to know that they can do that for themselves. Even if you don't go into this process feeling fully confident, there are moments when you can tap into that knowing and just go back to that belief for yourself, anchor into it or borrow somebody else's belief, whether it's your lawyer, your divorce coach, your grief coach, whoever somebody else who might have you know that belief and, in that confidence, in knowing that you're doing the right thing for you, borrow it from them if that's what you need to do in those moments.
Lauren Fair: 13:37
Oh yeah, that's so good. Was there ever a time, I'm wondering, karen, like when you asked yourself that question and the answer was not clear?
Karin Nelson: 13:45
Yeah, yeah, I struggled with, like my. I found out that my husband was having an affair, but I was kind of that woman who had had questioned whether or not I should get divorced for years before that. And just kind of because of the culture that I grew up in, the religion that I was raised in for years, divorce wasn't necessarily always an option, and so I kind of would just push it away. You know, the thought would come in maybe maybe I should go for this and it would just, I would just push it away. But, yeah for sure, my husband at the time and I we went back and forth about whether we should or shouldn't get divorced, and so often the idea was like, let's try and stay together for the kids, let's try this and see if this works, and then we can just like figure out how to be happy, or maybe this is just what life is and you can't really like be happy. And so there were often I would ask myself that question and maybe it was that fear that was holding me back. I didn't necessarily want the answer to be because of that uncertainty, because I didn't know what was the other side of it. And so, yes, there was definitely moments when I was ambiguous into what that answer was or I wasn't allowing myself to fully say the truth.
Lauren Fair: 15:00
Yeah, so what do you think got you from that place to the one where you were on that walk and the answer was clear.
Karin Nelson: 15:08
That's an interesting question. So I think, for me personally, I started dating when we were in the separation process, and so I had met a guy who really offered me the opportunity to start voicing my opinion in a way that I hadn't really felt like I was allowed to. He didn't really judge me for voicing my opinion. He very much encouraged me to say what I thought, to have my own thoughts, even if they were different from his, and I hadn't had that in my relationship in a really, really long time. I didn't feel like I was allowed to have my own thoughts, my own opinions, my own voice, and so I had been really afraid to go to that place of like it's okay for you to think this, it's okay for you to want this, and I think that offered me a little bit of courage. Maybe even it's like I was borrowing some of that belief from him in encouraging myself to open up to the truth of what it was that I really wanted, and also I had been working on my own confidence and been working on loving myself. I told this story many times as well, but when I, you know, first was deciding on whether or not I wanted to get divorced, I recognized that my self esteem was very low and I really didn't like myself very much, and so I had started and I did this for months and months and months, before I even decided to get a divorce. I started just telling myself five things that I liked about myself every morning, and sometimes it was the same five things and sometimes I was able to come up with five different things and I just started kind of growing that self love and that self compassion in me and I think that also opened me up to stepping into some of that knowing of what was right for me and I think that's something that, like, everyone has the ability to do. It's just a matter of knowing how to kind of unlock it.
Lauren Fair: 17:01
Yeah, it sounds like some. You needed some like mental or emotional space. Yeah, a bit to even kind of entertain, like if I'm kind of separated from this person in my mind for a moment, yes, and then kind of seeing what, what comes up for you about. You know what might work better?
Karin Nelson: 17:26
Yeah, I think there was, like it was almost and I didn't really recognize this until probably within the last year but I think there was like an emotional safety that I was missing when I would ask myself before it was almost like I didn't feel safe giving a true, honest answer and so I wasn't able to tap into that. I would either brush it off, pretend like what I was doing was what I wanted to. Maybe it was maybe in those moments it was what I wanted. I can't say for sure, but I do know when I felt safe in that moment, when I asked myself that question, the truth came out and it came out in like the most peaceful answer I think I've ever felt in my life, and that is that was such clarity for me. So I think you're right. I think there is like an emotional, almost like a bubble of safety that you can allow yourself to get true and real answers when it comes to the difficult things that happen in your life, whether it's a divorce or anything else that might be happening for you.
Lauren Fair: 18:29
Yeah, and I think that's one of the benefits and the beauty of divorce coaching is being able to create that space for somebody to feel safe and ask them those questions that I think oftentimes we don't ask ourselves. Like I love that you were able to ask yourself, like what do I really want? here, but it's amazing how often we don't ask ourselves those types of questions. And, yeah, I think it could be really empowering to know, like this is really what I really want, and then what you decide to do with that from there, you know, is still your decision. Like, just because you decide this is what you want doesn't mean you actually have to move forward if you don't want to 100%, but you know it can be. I think, really helpful to have that clarity to then use in, you know, assessing the options about what would this look like if I were to move forward. What would this look like if you know I were to stay? And maybe there's a third option there of like what if you know I were to do something else, like some other creative option? Maybe that involves waiting to a later time or something. But I think you know, when you're able to make those decisions from a really honest place for yourself, you know it's a lot more empowering and deliberate, you know, than just, you know, staying in that state of confusion. That really is in and of itself a decision which is just to not move forward, but then, but then, you think, still play through the scenarios in your mind, though. So it creates a lot of, I think, emotional turmoil.
Karin Nelson: 20:17
Yes, exactly, I know exactly what you're saying and I think so many women do experience that, because they're feeling stuck, they're not feeling safe to answer honestly. Maybe the honest answer is I want to stay, I want to work on the marriage, I love this person, I want to, you know, work it out. Maybe it is like you were saying there's not just the one answer of, like, always divorce. It could be something else. It could be staying, it could be working together, it could be it could be divorced. It could be some other creative option as well, something else, but really allowing yourself to get to that place where you know for you what's best, I think that is, that is gold, and I think it's definitely an underutilized skill that we aren't taught how to tap into.
Lauren Fair: 21:08
Yeah definitely. And I think it's a good point that you know. Divorce coaches are not pro divorce. Yeah, we are pro our clients.
Karin Nelson: 21:18
Yes, Emotional well being, yeah, best interest. What's going to be best for the client Exactly?
Lauren Fair: 21:25
Yeah, yeah, so you know and sometimes that does look like saying so then how, if you're going to stay, though, how do we make changes? Yes, so that you know this situation is different than it's been to date.
Karin Nelson: 21:38
You know so that date it's gotten you to this point, right?
Lauren Fair: 21:56
And so you know you know clients who are at the decision making stage and it is important to really look at the options with an eyes wide open approach of like what are all the implications of moving forward with a divorce? There's lots of reasons not to get divorced but there's lots of reasons you know to get divorced and I think you know you got to really look at both of those as deeply and comprehensively and honestly as possible and determine, you know, as a personal decision for your situation. You know which one of those do I want. But I think sometimes those decisions are made without really a full understanding of what the long term implications are of either one. You know whether it's staying or it's going. I love it I love it.
Karin Nelson: 22:45
Well, Lauren, thank you so much for being on my podcast. If there was, like, any tip that you would give when it comes to empowering someone obviously women especially, but as they go through this divorce process do you have anything that you would just kind of lay out there that you want to kind of leave my audience with as your best empowering tip?
Lauren Fair: 23:06
Sure, yeah, yeah. I love empowering women to engage in this process, and I think what comes to mind is primarily two things. One is knowledge is power, and it's important to get the right education about what your options are, about the processes, about what the future might look like. You know, if you were to move forward with the decision to, like I said, either go or stay right. So, looking at like, where are the educational gaps here? Of what do I need in terms of information from other people to then combine with my own, you know, self-knowing of you know what I know is best for me to be able to, you know, make a sound decision for the future. On that note, too, one of the teachers that I've learned from the divorce coaching space, deborah Doak, always says that you know fears are questions waiting to be answered, and so really obtaining the information and the expert perspective that maybe you lack about, you know, the process or some of the substantive issues or the decisions that needs to be made along the way, can go a long way in empowering you.
Karin Nelson: 24:18
Yeah.
Lauren Fair: 24:19
Yeah, and I think it's the education, combined with having the right support, to be able to really talk through what is, you know, going to be best for you and to also, you know, be able to have someone help you facilitate those decisions that are going to need to be made along the way, because the impact of that really is saving a lot of time, money, undue stress and, you know, kind of like we were talking about increasing your confidence, you know, around your ability to engage in the divorce process successfully and also, to you know, have that next chapter be as beautiful as it can be.
Karin Nelson: 25:05
Oh, that's such a beautiful way of saying it and I love that so much. I feel like we should just mic drop done, nailed it. Those two things are so key and I totally agree. I think that those two things the knowledge is power, and having somebody in your corner, you know, support system that is really going to help you through this process are huge when it comes to adding to your confidence, you know, getting you through this transition and moving forward to create the kind of life that you want. I think that's all such a beautiful, beautiful way of like tying it all in a bow and saying here you go, you've made it through this process, and now what? Now, where do you want to go from here?
Lauren Fair: 25:47
Yeah, I think it's just really important to remember that you really are the captain of your own divorce ship. You know you have lots of input, you have help around you, but really you are the one that is in charge and should be. You know directing how it proceeds and you know being able to navigate an unfamiliar and difficult legal process and the life transition that comes with it is just can be a transformative experience.
Karin Nelson: 26:15
Yeah, beautiful, wow. Well, thank you again for being here. You are a wealth of knowledge. I have an absolutely enjoyed a conversation and I think all of my listeners are going to get so much from this. Can you tell my listeners how they can find you if they want more information about working with you or just about you in general?
Lauren Fair: 26:33
Of course, yeah, you can find me on my website at laurenfaircoaching dot com, as well as on Facebook and Instagram at laurenfaircoaching.
Karin Nelson: 26:44
Awesome. I will put all of that in the show notes, so don't worry, if you didn't get your driving or something and you didn't, you missed it. It's in the show notes. You can just click there and find Lauren. But thank you again so much for being here. You're amazing and I'm so grateful for you.
Lauren Fair: 26:57
Thank you so much, karin.
Karin Nelson: 26:59
I really enjoyed chatting with you Hi friend, I'm so glad you're here and thanks for listening. I wanted to let you know that if you're wanting more, a way to make deeper, more lasting change then working one-on-one with me as your coach may be exactly what you need. Together, we'll take everything you're learning in the podcast and implement it in your life, with weekly coaching, real life practice and practical guidance. To learn more about how to work with me one-on-one, go to KarinNelsonCoaching dot com. Thanks for listening. If this podcast agreed with you in any way, please take a minute to follow and give me a rating. Wherever you listen to podcasts and for more details about how I can help you live an even better life than when you were married. Make sure and check out the full show notes by clicking the link in the description. Hi, friend, I'm so glad you're here and thanks for listening. I wanted to let you know that if you're wanting more, a way to make deeper, more lasting change, then working one-on-one with me as your coach may be exactly what you need. Together, we'll take everything you're learning in the podcast and implement it in your life, with weekly coaching, real life practice and practical guidance. To learn more about how to work with me one-on-one, go to KarinNelsonCoaching dot com. That's wwwKARINNELSONCOACHING dot COM. Thanks for listening. If this podcast agreed with you in any way, please take a minute to follow and give me a rating wherever you listen to podcasts and for more details about how I can help you live an even better life than when you were married. Make sure and check out the full show notes by clicking the link in the description.