Ep 216: Breaking the Cycle: Healthy Communication After Divorce

Communication patterns can make or break relationships, and understanding the destructive "Four Horsemen" identified by relationship expert John Gottman can help you build healthier connections after divorce. Being able to recognize these patterns in yourself gives you the power to change your communication style for all future relationships.

 Criticism, contempt, defensiveness, and stonewalling—these patterns create a cascade of disconnection that, once established, become increasingly difficult to break. In this episode I walk you through each destructive pattern and how to recognize when you're falling into these traps. Rather than approaching this knowledge with self-judgment, I invite you to view your communication habits through the lens of curiosity, opening the door to genuine transformation.

Whether you're co-parenting with your ex, building new friendships, navigating workplace dynamics, or considering future romantic relationships, these communication insights will serve you well. By supporting yourself first and creating space for intentional communication, you can break free from destructive patterns and build the authentic connections you deserve. 

If this podcast resonated with you in any way, please take a minute to follow and give me a rating wherever you listen to podcasts.

To schedule your complimentary consult with Karin click here.

Make sure to follow and rate the podcast on your favorite podcasting app.

List to the full episode:

Grief and trauma are the two biggest struggles women deal with as they go through their divorce. It's highly likely that you are experiencing both and don't even realize what you're feeling. I'm here to tell you that it's okay for you to grieve your marriage (even if it was shitty) and it's normal to be experiencing some kind of trauma (which is essentially a disconnection from yourself - your mind, body and soul). I can help guide you through the grief in all of the forms it shows up so you can heal. I can also teach you how to ground yourself in healing so you can ease through the trauma. Schedule your free consult by clicking here.

Featured on this episode:

1. Interested in the Divorce Betrayal Transformation? Learn more here.

2. Are you lost and confused about who you are after divorce? Don't worry. I've got 51 Ways to Get to Know Yourself Again. Click here to download.

3. Want to work first hand with Karin so you can stop worrying about what your life will be like after divorce, and instead begin making it amazing today? Click here to schedule a consult to find out more about working 1:1 with Karin as your coach.

4. Haven't left a review yet? No problem. Click here to leave one.

Full Episode Transcript:

This is Becoming you Again, the podcast that you listen to as you go through your divorce, for all of the help that you need outside of the guidance from your lawyer. This is Becoming you Again. I am your host, karin Nelson, and you are listening to episode number 216. Welcome to Becoming you Again, the podcast where you learn to step into your power as a woman in this world, where you learn to reconnect to your wholeness, your integrity, and bring into alignment your brain, your body and your intuition after divorce. This is the podcast where you learn to trust yourself again and move forward toward a life that you truly want. You are listening to Becoming you Again and I am your host, karin Nelson. Welcome back to the podcast today. My lovely, lovely ladies, I think you are amazing and I'm so glad that you keep coming back to get the help that you need as you go through your divorce. And let me just say, if you're looking for like extra help because maybe you have the tools that you need You've been listening to the podcast for a while, or you read a lot of books about how to support yourself when you go through challenges in your life and you're like I have all these tools and they are so helpful and yet I feel like it is taking forever and I feel like I'm just staying in the same place and not really a lot of progress is being made and I'm still struggling. Then maybe what you need is the coach that walks right alongside with you and helps you along the way, because I totally understand having all the tools and doing it on your own. You 100% can do that. It's totally possible. You're totally capable of it. I have full belief that you are absolutely 100% capable, when you have the tools to be able to heal yourself and support yourself and provide for your needs and validate yourself and give you the celebration and the cheerleading and all of the things, to do it by yourself. 100%, you can do that. However, it does take longer and it is harder because you have to really be on top of managing your brain. So if you want some help I'm here let's talk. Jump on top of managing your brain. So if you want some help, I'm here, let's talk. Jump on a free call with me. It's 30 minutes and I guarantee, even if we decide by the end of that call not to work with each other within that 30 minutes, you are going to feel more supported, more loved, more valued, more understanding of who you are and the direction that you're headed after divorce than you were before you got on the call. So schedule that call with me right now. It's free. We're going to talk for 30 minutes. You can click the link in the description to do that. You can go to my website, karinnelsoncoaching dot com. Yeah, there's lots of places to find it All right. So today in the podcast, I am talking about communication patterns. So the ones that I'm going to be going over today.

They were identified by John Gottman and if you've never heard of John Gottman, he is a pretty famous psychologist and he is known for his research on marital stability and divorce prediction. Like. He has this book that talks all about this but basically, like his work, uses scientific observation and data analysis to predict divorce with like 90% accuracy. So if you're thinking about divorce, if you're in a marriage, you're in a relationship, and you were like I don't know if we're going to make it. I'm, you know we're struggling, we've got some challenges, like every divorce or like every marriage. Right, every marriage has its challenges. There's no marriage that's perfect. But let's, then you go to John Gottman or you went to his like institute and like to get help. He could predict, based on this data analysis and all of the scientists scientific observation that he has done over the years, to predict whether or not you are going to make it in your marriage.

Now, that's not why I'm presenting it to you. Most of the people who listen to this podcast, I think, have already pretty much decided they're getting divorced, or they all are already in the process of going through a divorce, and that's totally fine. But I think what's really going to be useful about having this information is to see how your communication style is, because chances are, if you're getting out of a relationship, it's not going to be the only one you'll ever have. You'll have other relationships and knowing how to communicate effectively is an amazing tool for you and the relationships that you will continue to have in your life, whether they are romantic or intimate or not. So this is why I'm presenting this on this podcast today. It's for information purposes. It's to help you see where you might be lacking in communication style or what to look out for in your next relationship, so that you can like nip it in the bud before destruction starts to occur. If that's what you want, right?

Okay, so the more information and understanding that we have about ourselves and about even our marriage or the previous relationships that we've had, and your ability to communicate, the better off you're going to be, the better off I'm going to be, the better off we will be moving forward in our life into new relationships. And again I want to remind you that it's not just the you know, romantic relationships that we have to communicate in. It's all relationships, right. Interpersonal relationships with kids, continued relationship with your ex, because you probably have to co-parent. Relationships with family, with friends, with coworkers, right? So there's, our whole lives are just revolving around relationships. It's going to serve us if we know how to communicate effectively and if we know where we are falling short and where we need to make some changes, right?

So use this information to view yourself through a lens of curiosity. I never want you to like be using the lens of judgment of like oh, I did that wrong. I'm the worst. How could I like? Why don't I know that yet? Or why do I keep doing that? No, no, no, no, no, we're not doing that. That lens needs to go in the garbage, right? It is a trash lens. It's all scratched up. It sucks, we're throwing it away because judgment about yourself is not helpful. It just is not helpful. It keeps us stuck, it keeps us feeling shame, it keeps us taking all of the blame. All that does is keep us stuck, disconnected from ourselves and unable to move forward, and that is not what any of us want, right? We want to be able to move forward, we want to be able to create happiness, we want to be able to love ourselves and accept ourselves flaws and non-flaws, all of it and the only way that we can get to that place is through curiosity. Judgment is not helpful, okay, so use this as curiosity and then you can decide where you might need a little help, a little work when it comes to communication.

So Gottman defines the four communication styles that I'm going to be talking about today as the four horsemen, and he named these biblically after the horsemen, who represent kind of the end of time. So, like, destruction is basically what we're looking for here. Okay, cause if you fall into any of these four types and the more farther down, farther down you go one, two, three, four the more destructive your communication style is. Okay. So if you fall into these types, odds are your marriage isn't going to last, and if you're seeing this now, probably your next relationship won't last either. Okay.

So, again, curiosity we're looking at it through curiosity, okay, so the first horseman is criticism. Now, criticism is like when you criticize your partner and I want you to think about this also as like information about how your partner treats you too, or how your ex treated you, right, okay. So it's not just like you looking at like judgment or curiosity about yourself, but also curiosity about the relationship that you were, right. Okay. So it's not just like you looking at like judgment or curiosity about yourself, but also curiosity about the relationship that you were in. Okay, so criticizing your partner and Gottman really explains this like criticizing your partner is different than offering a critique or voicing a complaint. Like a critique or voicing a complaint are different, okay. For example, a complaint might be like I was so scared when you came home late and I didn't hear from you, especially since we I thought we had agreed that we would let each other know beforehand if we were going to be late, right, so that's like a complaint. You're not being critical, you're just kind of voicing this concern that you have.

A criticism would sound something like you just never think about how what you do affects other people. Like, I don't believe you when you tell me that you're just forgetful. I think you're just selfish. You never think of others, you always think of yourself and you especially never think of me. Okay, so that is like a criticism, right? See how? That the difference between those two the criticism, is like an attack on the core of your partner's character, or vice versa, they could be attacking your character, okay. So if you're starting to find that you and the person you're in a relationship are critical of each other, doesn't mean your relationship is doomed.

According to Gottman, the problem is just with the criticism and when it becomes pervasive, when it is like paving the way for the other three horsemen to kind of gallop on in and really create waves in your communication patterns and styles. So just pay attention, okay. So the second horseman, according to Gottman, is contempt. Now, this is when you are actually being like just truly mean, when you are treating other people or you are being treated with disrespect, mocking, sarcasm, like ridicule, name calling, mimicking or using body language that is like eye rolling, scoffing, like basically what this does is it? The other person just feels completely worthless. They are made to feel like they are despised or hated and just doesn't feel good, right? So contempt is like you are taking the attacks and then you are showing them how you are just like morally superior over them too.

So contempt might be something like your partner comes home from work, they immediately go play video games. And you got home from work and now you're in the kitchen making dinner and you go in there and you are just like boiling over with resentment and rage, right Of seeing them just sit down, not help around the house, not pick anything up, not even say hi to the kids or anything, and they just go and turn on their video games. And you have just you've had enough and you've lost it. And you're like, oh my God, are you fucking kidding me? Like I have been with the kids since I got home from work. I'm in the house, I'm in the kitchen making dinner and all you're doing is sitting on the. I don't have time to deal with another child. I've got the five over here that I'm already dealing with. Maybe you could just be less pathetic and just help around the house. You sorry POS, right, or something like that. Like just mean, nasty ways of talking to each other. So if you notice that, like you are feeling contempt and resentment and and this like boiling over toward your partner, or if you noticed it in the past, or if you've noticed it like you being on the other end of the attack, it's something to look out for right, it's something that needs to be nipped in the bud, otherwise it's going to pave way for that's right.

The third horseman and according to Gottman, the third horseman is defensiveness. This is a response to criticism, right. Defensiveness is when we feel attacked, we feel unjustly accused of something. We want to feel like we are the victim and the other partner is, or the other person in the relationship is the perpetrator, and we need them to back off because we are being unjustly attacked. Right, that? That's where the defensiveness is coming from.

So, basically, it's like when you're just constantly making excuses for your behavior or your actions. So like, for example, you go to your partner hey, I was just checking in, were you able to cancel that doctor's appointment for Charlie? Like you said you were going to? And then they're like well, I was just too busy today, if you must know, I was really busy at work, and then we had a work meeting over lunch. When I was going to do it and I, it just got pushed off to the side and so I couldn't show up and do it in that way. Just got pushed off to the side and so I couldn't show up and do it in that way. Why didn't you just do it when you were thinking of it, right? And so not only is the partner responding defensively but then also blaming you for not doing it, even though they said they would take the responsibility, something like that.

When we get defensive, all it does is it creates disconnection between yourself and your partner, and it's not useful to anyone. And it's totally understandable if you do get defensive I'm not saying that you shouldn't, especially if you are feeling attacked and blamed for everything. I know that that happens but at the same time it is creating disconnection for you and the person you're trying to communicate with. And there are other ways of creating space so that that defensiveness isn't on the forefront of how you respond when you're trying to communicate. But if you stay defensive again, it's just paving the way for the fourth horseman, and the fourth horseman, according to Gottman, is called stonewalling, and that is a response to contempt. And this is when we've just had enough, like the person on the other end is just withdrawing from the interaction, shutting down, stops responding to the partner, tunes out, turns away, pretends like the conversation isn't happening any longer, start to distract themselves like they just are not engaging whatsoever.

Gottman makes it very clear when you kind of study his work that these things don't happen just like boom, boom, boom, boom, right. First horseman, second horseman, third horseman, fourth horseman, and they happen overnight. And they happen like one, two, three, four, in the same argument, even right. It happens over time, sometimes even years, of a relationship where you're not using tools that can support yourself and you're not using effective communication strategies to help you create the space and the intentionality that you want when you're communicating with someone else, when you're communicating with your partner. But the interesting thing about when you get to the point of stonewalling, when this fourth horseman is like on your doorstep and you've gotten to this point where you just you've had enough right and you get to stonewalling, you're just checking out, it becomes a really easy habit to go to because you just check out and you're unwilling to listen, to have any kind of communication style or to engage actively in the conversation, no matter what it is, because you feel constantly attacked or you're the one that's constantly attacking, right, okay?

So one of the best ways to disengage from showing up stonewalling is to take a time out to just literally stop the conversation and say I am feeling very angry about this, so angry that I can't continue talking right now. So I'm going to take a break and then I'm going to come back in like 20 minutes and we can finish this conversation. And I've totally had to do this in my relationship with my partner. I never did this in my relationship with my ex not ever. Not one time did I get to the point where I asked to take a break. I definitely was in this space of stonewalling where I just felt constantly attacked or unheard and so I was doing the attacking and it is such a terrible, sad, lonely place to be. It feels so bad.

So I totally understand why it comes about, but I also understand that having good communication strategies can actually improve your relationships moving forward. Because I have used this whole strategy of I'm feeling very angry right now and I cannot continue this conversation, so I'm going to take a break, I'm going to remove myself, I'm going to go to the room, go out of the room, go outside, take a walk, whatever right you get to decide. But I'm going to remove to the room, go out of the room, go outside, take a walk, whatever right you get to decide. But I'm going to remove myself for 20 minutes. I'll come back and we can finish this conversation. That will give you the time that you need to calm down, to calm your nervous system down and to come in with a more level head to continue the conversation, where you're not checking out, you're not stonewalling, but you're also open to listening and communicating. So Gottman definitely talks about the antidotes to these four horsemen and I'm just going to cover them very quickly, not really going to go into them, because I think that a lot of the tools that I cover are very useful when it comes to communicating and using your voice, but also creating space for yourself to support your nervous system but also to support how you want to show up intentionally in your relationships.

But Gottman does say that if you are feeling a lot of verbal attacking or you are the attacker with criticism, that sometimes it's better to just have a gentle startup, talk about expressing your needs, talk about your feelings using I statements, and I think a lot of therapists talk about this, and so pay attention to those. And then, when it comes to contempt, you can start to remind yourself of your partner's positive qualities. Gottman calls it building a culture of appreciation. So remind yourself of the qualities that your partner has and find gratitude in having the partner that you do have. That is going to override that contempt and that moral superiority that you're feeling when you get to that second horseman right.

And then, when it comes to defensiveness, the antidote to that is to take responsibility, like see things from your partner's point of view, from your partner's perspective, and offer an apology of wrongdoing, like. I find this one, especially this taking responsibility and not being defensive really really, really, really useful when you have a relationship with your child, like when you're parenting. Seeing things from your child's point of view, understanding from their perspective where they're coming from, and then offering an apology If you feel like it's the right move to make from a parental perspective, for any wrongdoing that you might've done creates so much connection between you and your child. It is amazing. So, if you're struggling with your relationship with your child, this one thing taking responsibility and actually seeing things from your child's point of view, from your child's perspective, can make giant strides in your relationship that you have with your child, can make giant strides in your relationship that you have with your child.

And then, when it comes to stonewalling again, you give yourself the break that you need in that moment. And then, when you take that moment for yourself those 20 minutes or however long you're going to excuse yourself like don't go, like two weeks or something right. We want to come back to the conversation and finish the conversation with an open mind and heart. But when you excuse yourself for that 20 minutes, you do some self-soothing. I talk about self-soothing all the time, especially when it comes to having self-compassion for yourself, support yourself with tools to where you feel loved, cherished, supported, realigned. Feel loved, cherished, supported, realigned, reconnected to yourself.

So any of those somatic practices, grounding techniques, self-soothing practices that I offer in this podcast, you do one of those during your 20 minutes and you reconnect with your mind, your body and your intuition so that when you go back into the conversation you don't feel defensive and you don't turn to contempt or criticizing, because you've created the space that you need for your nervous system to be realigned, so that your brain comes back online and you're like okay, how do I intentionally want to go about this? Can I be open? Can I be open to hearing what they're saying? That's what we, that's what we really want, right? Is we want a relationship where we feel heard and where they feel heard? Yeah, and so when we support ourselves in the way that we need and we stop waiting for them to give us that support that we're looking for, that validation that we think we need, we validate ourselves and then we go into the relationship and we are so much better off.

Being open to listening, to hearing, to seeing from their perspective, to understanding Doesn't mean you always have to take their idea or agree with them, but it's much easier to understand and to step away from these four horsemen that are going to come charging in if we don't adopt these new ways of communicating. Understand and to step away from these four horsemen that are going to come charging in if we don't adopt these new ways of communicating. I hope that this was helpful for you to take a look at yourself and how you show up in relationships, how your old relationship was and how you want to go forward in relationships. Moving forward and again, not just intimate relationships, not just romantic relationships, relationships with family, friends, kids, parents, coworkers all of them, right, these are important things, and knowing how to communicate effectively and having strategies to support yourself when you go into these relationships and communicate with other people is huge. All right, that's what I have for you today, as always. I love you. You are amazing. Remember that about yourself, and I will be back next week. Hi, friend, I'm so glad you're here and thanks for listening.

I wanted to let you know that if you're wanting more, a way to make deeper, more lasting change, then working one-on-one with me as your coach may be exactly what you need. Together, we'll take everything you're learning in the podcast and implement it in your life, with weekly coaching, real-life practice and practical guidance. To learn more about how to work with me one-on-one, go to KarinNelsonCoaching dot com. That's W-W-W dot K-A-R-I-N-N-E-L-S-O-N coaching dot com. Thanks for listening. If this podcast agreed with you in any way, please take a minute to follow and give me a rating. Wherever you listen to podcasts and for more details about how I can help you live an even better life than when you were married, make sure and check out the full show notes by clicking the link in the description.